Category — Buying an Affordable Classic

Part V:  8. Auto Trader & Auto Trader Classics (print and online)

These are two solid publications that also boast equally complete online versions. Auto Trader covers cars from 1981 to present, Auto Trader Classics covers mainly cars 1980 and older. The national market is well represented with these two. A good mix of private party and dealer ads show up here, as a result there are some real bargains to be had.

Great for paging through in bed.

Auto Trader Classics has come a long way from its “Old Car Trader” roots. The print publication got a serious facelift with more color photos and some full color glossy pages as opposed to the old days when it was all black and white newsprint. Both publications have their own websites which are powerful tools to conduct comprehensive, local or national searches for specific cars.

Image rich, lots of color.

While I like to buy the occasional print copy of Auto Trader Classics at the bookstore to browse through in bed at night, it’s clear that the website is the place to be. New listings are added all the time, everyday. The print version comes out once a month. It’s nice to page through sometimes, but if you’re serious about finding a car, you’ve got to be on the website and you’ve got to be fast. You’ve got to see the new listings before the next guy if you want to swoop in and take advantage of the best deals on the best cars.

The wave of the present, and future.

The thing that separates Auto Trader Classics from Hemmings Motor News for me, because they are similar in many respects, is the fact that Auto Trader Classics is so much more image based, especially the print version. Every classified in auto Trader Classics is accompanied with a photo, that’s what they’re all about. Online is pretty much the same way, the only ads without photos seem to be some of the newer ads that might be waiting for a photo submission.

Auto Trader Classics is where you’ll find the old cars, 1950s, 60s, 70s. The regular Auto Trader is full of modern everyday drivers and specialty cars. It can be a good place to find a deal, an older classic listed there may fall through the cracks. If you’re looking for modern classics, say a 1986 Corvette or mid 80s Alfa Romeo Spider, Auto Trader is the place to look if you want an early 70s Vette it’s Auto Trader Classics.

There seems to be about an equal amount of dealer listings and private listings in Auto Trader Classics. You’ve got everything from the big vintage car dealers with large inventories and very expensive cars, to the one man show with a dealer’s license and a couple of cars for sale, all the way down to the guy in your neighborhood listing his car on the national market.

While browsing listings online what inevitably happens is that I click on a particular car listed by a dealer, there is a link to that dealer’s website which I click and I’m on a dealer’s website that I didn’t know about previously. Maybe I find myself looking at a car that I had no intention of looking at. In short, searching Auto Trader Classics has introduced me to many classic car dealers that I didn’t know about before. I’ve bookmarked their websites and find myself visiting their sites regularly.

Just searching these classifieds has expanded my knowledge and understanding of the larger collector car market and the players, big and small, in the car hobby. This is an added benefit of most of the sources on this top ten list. In the end it’s all networking, the more people in the hobby you get to know the more fun you’ll have, the more opportunities to buy and sell cars will come up.

Part IV:  9. Hemmings Motor News (print version and online)

Hemmings Motor News, October 2009

Started in the mid fifties Hemmings Motor News is the oldest publication of its kind in the United States. 200,000 + copies of the print version are sold every month, and one must imagine there are many thousands of hits to their well put together website each month as well. Because Hemmings is so well established it is a great source of high quality classifieds for classic, collector and sports cars from true industry insiders. It was the unofficial publication of the collector car hobby before anyone really realized there was a collector car hobby.

There is a nice mix of classifieds from private parties and dealers alike which results in a wide range of prices for cars that might sound very similar based on the text in the ad. It’s up to each of us to figure out which is the best car for our needs. In most cases you get what you pay for. There is no such thing as a cheap classic… affordable, yes, but cheap, no. That $8,000 1983 Porsche 911 SC might look cheap, but that $8,000 will just be the price of admission into Porsche ownership. There is a reason it only costs $8,000. You’re probably better off buying the $14,000 car and saving yourself the headaches of a true problem child.

Most of Hemmings is printed in black and white on newsprint and the vast majority of classifieds do not include pictures. Again, this publication is a throwback for insiders of the hobby. It’s been that way forever, and will likely continue the same way.

The online version hemmings.com is where I usually search Hemming’s Classifieds. It’s only when I’m away from home, on vacation or take a plane flight when I’ll buy the print version. The website seems to have many more ads which include photos which I like, but when you’re serious about finding a particular model it’s worth calling anyone who has a classified that sounds interesting, photo or no photo.

Hemmings Motor News home page

Consider the readership of Hemmings. It’s the oldest publication of its kind, a lot of the subscribers have been subscribers long before the internet or digital cameras. Look at the average age of the typical car show participant… depending upon the kind of show I suppose, but let’s just say the guys who were driving 1960s sports car in the 1960s aren’t getting any younger.

A page of Triumphs.

It’s very possible the person who listed that ad without a photo did so because he might not have the know how or tools to do so. That works in your favor. If an ad without a photo garners less attention they’ll get fewer interested parties. Call the owner of the listed car and ask if they can email you digital pictures of the car described. There are plenty of people who will just gloss over such ads and go on to the next one. I once had someone mail (yes, U.S. Postal Service) me printed 35mm photos of a Porsche 914 because he didn’t have a digital camera and wouldn’t have known how to email attach pictures even if he did.

Ultimately, Hemmings is a great source for unique and interesting classic and sports cars whether you choose to use their website or buy the printed copy on the news stand. There are many cars advertised in Hemmings that don’t come close to our idea of an “affordable classic car” but they are in there. Often time’s things show up in Hemmings that have never been offered for sale precisely because of the “insider” nature of its readership. Working on the national market might mean paying a premium, a trip to get your car or shipping, but acquiring the right car can easily trump any such considerations.

Part III: 10. eBay Motors – The Power of Completed Listings

Knowledge of true market prices and values is obviously important to anyone looking to buy their next affordable classic car. Some people turn to resources such as Kelley Blue Book for such information, but the Blue Book is a better resource for insurance companies than a buyer or seller. Just as my father told me when I was a kid getting into baseball card collecting, “A card is only worth what someone will pay you for it” the same is true of cars. Kelley Blue Book can say one thing, but until a car sells, numbers in that book are just numbers with no real meaning and they can become outdated quickly.

eBay Motors Completed Listings link

On an eBay page of a particular car model, far down on the left hand side of the page, there is always a link “Completed Listings”. This should be your first stop when trying to figure out market prices. This link leads to pages of completed auctions from that category from the past few weeks. You’ll see the cars that sold and their selling price as well as the cars that did not sell, the highest non winning bid or the “Buy It Now” price that nobody took. These are real transactions, either money changed hands or it didn’t. A no sale? Someone had an unrealistic reserve or Buy It  Now price. Sold car? What was the price? You can look at each auction, see how many bidders there were, all the details.

With this information you can figure out what cars people might be having a hard time selling for top dollar, cars that people might be pricing too high. Have a look at early and mid 1980s Mercedes-Benz SLs with miles over $8k on eBay. There are a lot of no sales, unrealistic Buy It Now prices, in the $9,000 – $13,000 range. People clearly have unrealistic expectations for the sale price of these cars. Something in the $7,000 to $8,000 range is all the money from my vantage point, I’d feel better about paying $5,000. So I might looking around at more local sources for such cars in that lower price range, knowing they can’t get more on the national eBay market. This market information is invaluable to anyone looking for a good deal locally. It’s very possible you’ll find a great 1985 500SL grey market car on ebay with 85,000 miles, original owner, etc. that would be well worth paying up for… just be careful when considering more common options. A better deal on a better car can usually be had closer to home if you’re patient.

The Mercedes-Benz SL market speaks... real auctions, real results

Cross country eBay purchases always carry a degree of risk with them, it’s obviously important to deal with a reputable seller with a  proven track record of positive feedback. Unless you’re looking for something really rare, and if you are, it probably doesn’t qualify as an “Affordable Classic”, there are just too many other, safer options to take a chance with a seller who doesn’t seem quite right.

A long distance purchase via eBay also involves shipping the vehicle back to your home or flying out to pick it up and driving it home… both add to the cost of the transaction. I would argue a “fly out, drive home” adds to the adventure of the purchase and the enjoyment of the car, but in the end there is money involved.

That’s what I did with my 1982 Volkswagen Westfalia. It wasn’t an eBay purchase, just a regular classified I found on the internet. A one way plane ticket to Denver from Chicago, the drive back to Chicago is a trip I won’t forget. I had a smile a mile wide the whole time, however I was prepared to walk away from the transaction and fly home if the car wasn’t what it was represented to be.

In the end I like eBay more as a research tool than a place to buy my next affordable classic car, but it really depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a real cream of the crop example of something, you may have to go to the national market and pay up for it. There is real value in that if that’s what you want. If you’re looking for something a bit more common, a project, or a solid driver you might be able to do better closer to home. If you’ve got time and you’re patient, I believe you will always find what you’re looking for close to home.

10. eBay Motors – As a Learning and Market Research Tool

eBay’s national and even international reach has had a significant impact on the collector, classic, and sports car market since its founding in the mid nineties. A huge percentage of classic and vintage car sales can be attributed to eBay Motors. Virtually every vintage and classic car dealer lists on eBay. They may sell some cars there, but it’s also an excellent venue for cheap advertising.

eBay Motors home page

I cannot count how many times I’ve looked at a single ebay listing from a collector car dealer and gone to check out their company website where they have their entire inventory listed. I might stay on their site for an hour browsing their entire inventory while they might have just had a car or two listed on ebay. It’s great exposure if you’re a seller.

In my opinion eBay Motors is a great resource to learn about current market conditions surrounding a specific classic or collector car model you might be interested in, however it might not be the best place to actually buy your next affordable classic.

First let me explain what I like about eBay and why I think it’s one of the best places to learn about cars in general, and to learn about what is really happening in the collector and classic car markets. You’ll be better equipped to make a good buying decision if you know what’s happening on ebay with the particular model you’re interested in.

There are tens of thousands of cars listed on eBay at any one time. Given these numbers, it’s a great place to search through listings of a specific model to see what sort of interesting model variants might be out there. There are models you might not come across looking through local classifieds. If you’re looking for a Volkswagen Thing for example, you’ll see plenty of orange and white ones everywhere, but chances are the best place to find an “Acapulco” Thing is on ebay. They usually show up a few times a month with the surrey cloth top with fringe and turquoise blue paint. You can do more research on that model variant if you think you’re interested in it. Is it worth paying a little extra for that Acapulco Thing from south Florida? Or is the 70s orange one 45 minutes from home a better car for you?

I learn a lot about different models, special editions, special colors, anything out of the ordinary by looking at eBay listings. There are just so many, you get to see what’s common and what’s not. Guards Red was clearly the most common color for a 1980s Porsche 944, that’s why I always keep my eyes out for a good one that’s not red, maybe I’d go with Gold or that cool Bronze color, something different.

eBay Motors MG B listings

eBay Motors can help you figure out what you might like in a particular model. It’s a great place to see what’s out there, what’s available. The many pictures that people post are great learning tools as well to really see how the cars look, inside and out. One must be careful here though, depending upon how the car has been treated or cared for you could be looking at all sorts of non original parts or a non original car so it should never be your sole information and research source.

eBay crosses all borders state and international. There are tens of thousands of cars listed on eBay Motors at any one time. There are millions of people browsing listings everyday. In the end it’s a numbers game. When a classic car is put in a venue with so many people watching, and it’s sold via eBay’s auction setting it’s safe to say that what the car sold for is the full market price, on that day, for that car.

High prices, or at least fully priced cars are my main complaint about eBay Motors as a buyer. It is very hard to get any sort of  “incredible deal” for a classic car on ebay, there are just too many people watching. As someone who wants to get a sense of the market and figure out what might constitute a “great deal” ebay is the place to go.

Part I: Introduction

Looking for, finding and eventually buying the right affordable classic car is half the fun of the car hobby as far as I’m concerned. It’s the thrill of the hunt, the possibility of finding something that no one else has yet uncovered, the possibility of getting a great deal on a great car that you’ll drive and enjoy for years to come.

If I look back over the past 10+ years I realize that much of my spare time has been spent scouring different classified ads looking at cars for sale. The internet makes it so easy, many weekend and late night hours have evaporated as I soak in everything I can about all sorts of different cars for sale. A side benefit, something I didn’t even realize was happening, was that I’ve learned a great deal about different makes and models, cars I didn’t even know I was interested in. By reading hundreds, probably thousands of eBay listings, looking at countless pictures, it’s clear that there really is “an ass for every seat”. I mean, someone’s buying the AMC Pacers listed on eBay.

I’ve also uncovered places on the web populated by die hard enthusiasts of specific makes and models where some of the best cars change hands, off the radar of the general public or the casual classified browser.

This is the introduction to a series of articles where I will lay out “The 10 Best Places To Find An Affordable Classic Car”. Each article will discuss specific pros and cons of each source. Some sources are specific publications or websites, others are general categories where very specific information will be provided in the detailed article.

We’ll see that some places are better for research and getting a feel for the true market of a particular affordable classic car while others are better simply because many detailed photos are posted and specific technical information is provided. We’ll eventually find the best place to actually put a deal together and purchase a car to be sure you’re covering all of your bases and getting the best deal you can. Here are the…

“The 10 Best Places To Find An Affordable Classic Car”

10. eBay Motors – The site that changed the classic car market. eBay Motors is one of the best places to research affordable classic cars due to its national and international reach. While it’s a good place to find unusual variants and particularly rare cars you might not find in local classifieds it may not be the place to buy your next affordable classic car at the best price.

9. Hemmings Motor News – Historically the print version of Hemmings Motor News, available on news stands, was the insider’s source for classic and collector car classifieds across the national market. Today Hemmings Motor News is also on the web in the form of a well developed site cultivating a strong online following. Solid classifieds from car hobby insiders covering all types of classic and sports cars, however a majority of the classifieds are dealer listings for cars that are priced at full retail prices.

8. Auto Trader and Auto Trader Classics – These are two solid publications that also boast equally complete online versions. Auto Trader covers cars from 1981 to present, Auto Trader Classics covers anything from 1980 and older. The national market is well represented with these two. A good mix of private party and dealer ads show up here, as a result there are some real bargains to be had.

7. Marque Club Publications – Whether it’s the Mustang Club of America’s “Mustang Times” or The BMW Car Club of America’s “Roundel” the classifieds found in club publications are a great place to find some of the highest quality cars out there. You may pay a premium for them, but chances are they’ve been well cared for by a marque enthusiast who knows the model you’re considering.

6. Market Letters – Perhaps one of the most niche types of publications. Whether the pricey “Porsche Market Letter” or the very specific “SL Market Letter” that specializes specifically in Mercedes-Benz SLs of all years, many of the best cars appear in these types of publications listed by people in the know for people in the know. Rare and unusual models are often easy to find in these types of publications. Again, you may pay a premium price, but chances are you’ll find premium product within these pages.

5. Marque and Model Specific Websites – There are hundreds of such sites out there, many with very active discussion forums attached to them where aficionados of a particular make or model communicate about their cars. The For Sale areas of such websites are a great place to find affordable classics in all states of repair. Parts and projects to complete cars, such sites are a great place to find your next affordable classics. Be fast though, the good deals don’t last long on these sorts of sites.

4. Local, Free, Car Ad Magazines (by the exit at the grocery store) – I’ve had good luck with these types of publications. Patience is key here because you’re usually looking for the diamond in the rough, an affordable classic buried within pages and pages of regular old used cars. If the right car does appear however, it will be near home and surely a great deal.

3. Driving Back Roads on the Weekends – Not the most efficient way to find your next affordable classic or sports car, but one of the most fun. When out on the weekend keep your eyes open. If you come across something good chances are it will be priced right and the owner (or his wife) will be eager to deal to get it off of his front lawn… and if it’s close to home you don’t’ have to worry about shipping hassles.

2. Craigslist – It isn’t the easiest place to navigate, but there are usually lots of ads no matter what you’re looking for. It’s also the first and easiest place the lay person lists a car for sale because it’s free. I see great deals on Craigslist all the time, best of all, they’re local ads so you don’t have to travel to look at the cars. You do have the ability to search other areas besides your own, just in case you want to see what’s available in Northern California or some other part of the country.

1. Word of Mouth – Word of mouth about my interest in affordable classic and sports cars is how I’ve actually had people show up in my driveway with a car for sale… before they even put it on the market. When you’re in the market, or even when you’re not… tell everyone that you’re looking for an interesting classic. When they clean out grandpa’s garage and find the old MG in the corner everyone forgot they just might call you first.